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Post by wayfast01 on May 13, 2010 7:32:22 GMT -8
Just to clarify, I was not promoting "union representation" or even complaining about how much it costs to race. I am about as anti-union as you can get, and I got into racing knowing it was not a cheap hobby and is only going to get more expensive as my son progresses through the classes. My point was simply, that if you are really concerned about the direction of the track, and you feel that they wrong you on a weekly basis, than maybe you ought to apporach them in a professional/organized manner and instead of screaming at them, present it intelligently.
That is all.......
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Post by topfive on May 13, 2010 8:20:58 GMT -8
Wayfast- There's nothing wrong with your approach, but take it from guys who've been around for many years- its been tried before and always falls on deaf ears. Trying to be reasonable with LVMS is like calling the customer service department at your phone company.
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Post by crewman on May 13, 2010 8:22:36 GMT -8
the thing that is wrong with racing is that there are too many politics in racing...its not like the good old days of craig road speedway and such...these tracks are strickly business and dont care about the people who keep them in business! the most fun i have ever had as a racer and crew member for many team and many yrs was when i raced at pahrump valley all you had to do was show up and race. no politics no bs just good old fashion fun.
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Post by teammtrsprts on May 13, 2010 15:40:53 GMT -8
Yes, I agree
Due to the state of the Union the numbers have gone down all over the country.
I don't agree that Irwindale is in the same boat as Bullring. They race every weekend and have a much larger customer base. "front and back gates"
Irwindale is yet to combine the late models and super late models just to have enough cars to put on a show. The Bullring did this several years ago!
Look at how many total dates and classes race Irwindale compared to the Bullring. Who do you think makes the most margin at the end of the year?
The only classes keeping the Bullring going are old midgets or bankrupt tour series.
The worst decision the Bullring made was to go to the 10" soft tire. This parked over half their customer base, due to the cost of racing at their facility. People like the president told them that if teams can not afford the new tire they should not be racing supers. Well now everyone is seeing the effects of that! With no late model class the customers parked their cars. How many business clients do you have Scotty?
Soon the Bullring will have a 40lap trophy dash with less than 10 cars! I wonder how many race fans will pay to see that and how many entry fees, tires and gallons of fuel won't be sold!
Bad business model! LVMS you priced your product right out of the market!
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Post by dave on May 13, 2010 18:12:34 GMT -8
You're a little out of the loop on Irwindale this season Bill. They implemented a new spec engine in SLM which chased most to either Orange Show or the tour. Counts in all classes are down this year compared to last. Most are lucky to get more than 10 or 15.
The Bullring is a small part of the LVMS big picture. As long as they can cover costs with Inex classes it will do fine. The meat is in the Cup date, the two drags and the myriad of other events. Irwindale, OTHO that's all they have. Who do you really think makes more money? LVMS or TSI?
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Post by topfive on May 14, 2010 5:09:18 GMT -8
You're a little out of the loop on Irwindale this season Bill. They implemented a new spec engine in SLM which chased most to either Orange Show or the tour. Counts in all classes are down this year compared to last. Most are lucky to get more than 10 or 15. The Bullring is a small part of the LVMS big picture. As long as they can cover costs with Inex classes it will do fine. The meat is in the Cup date, the two drags and the myriad of other events. Irwindale, OTHO that's all they have. Who do you really think makes more money? LVMS or TSI? Thats the answer in a nutshell. LVMS could care less if the Bullring even holds events. They could bulldoze the whole thing and make it into a parking lot and still be money ahead- just move their Inex stuff to the 1/4 mile infield. That's also why the place has been run by a string of incompetents.
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Post by teammtrsprts on May 14, 2010 14:08:38 GMT -8
Dave and Top five, I am not out of the loop! The new Coronado school car has the GM CT525 spec engine. I think it is a great program. That engine will last over 4 seasons at half the cost. It also gets rid of all the local engine builder drama. Check it out www.coronadocougars.netI seem to remember Stafford telling everyone, "The reason we are going to the expensive soft tire is to get all the Irwindale guys to race at the Bullring. This hasn't happened! Irwindale added 75lbs to the spec engine supers at the shootout, "to please all the Ford guys". Cars with the spec engine are yet to win a race or do well in traffic. This is why Irwindale just released a rule change. All supers weight is back to 3000lbs and they will be allowing the tour cars. Bud, if you think Powell is going to shut down the Bullring you are on crack! He uses revenue that is generated from the Bullring to pay LVMS's weekly labor expenses! Do the Math! The Bullring is making more monies then you realize! For ever tire sold, the Bullring makes a min of $30 "after American Race Supply gets their cut". Then take in account they also make money off the front and back gates, refreshment stands "ran by fund raising groups" and they also have their hands in all the vendors pockets. LVMS cannot sell the current RV parking! Cup weekend attendance is on a serious decline. LVMS is having problems giving away tickets!
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Post by dave on May 14, 2010 15:36:46 GMT -8
Bill that giant buzzing sound it topfive's point flying over your head. He didn't suggest they build a parking lot but stated that if the Bullring had to go the impact on LVMS and SMI would be minimal. I'd bet they make more profit on renting The Strip and the outer road course than they do on the Bullring. Your argument is a circular firing squad. First you argue that Irwindale "makes the most margin", which in terms of business operations standards is a meaningless statement. If you are talking about comparing profit margins that's not a good comparison metric to see who has the better investment. If anything I'd say the profit margin at the Bullring as a standalone is better because the hard costs are covered by larger entity. Which is why they can run the Bullring at a lower cost per event because some of the labor, all the facility cost and track equipment cost are offset by the scope of the operation. While Irwindale might make more money short track racing than the Bullring, that's not necessarily the best comparison of who has the better investment. It's really an apples and oranges comparison.
The spec engine deal at TSI didn't "end the local builder drama". It created a different drama with Maropulos. The CT525 long block is about 7500 or so (or cheaper). What's with the 3500-4000 added for parts that can be sourced from others? You slam LVMS for taking a taste of the tires then praise TSI for the engine deal. I'd say the reason the spec package isn't competitive has more to do with the teams than it does the package. If I can paraphrase Bear from another thread, the SLM competition is elsewhere this year.
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Post by seeyouinhell on May 14, 2010 16:41:23 GMT -8
LVMS may run the Bullring into the ground, but it will not close. They have to run a "weekly" support series to keep the nascar sanction for the big track.
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Post by goat roper on May 14, 2010 17:24:10 GMT -8
Jimmy, you misspelled weakly.
Verne
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Post by dave on May 14, 2010 17:45:30 GMT -8
Most of the Cup tracks don't run a weekly series. Most of the tracks are local short tracks. It's not a condition of the Cup date. LVMS is the only Cup track listed on the hometracks site that runs NWAAS dates.
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Post by seeyouinhell on May 14, 2010 22:12:11 GMT -8
Whatever, sorry I chimed in.
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Post by teammtrsprts on May 14, 2010 22:18:50 GMT -8
Dave,
Again, you have your facts wrong!
Stafford is required to pay SMI out of his margin for all management, security and maintenance. This is how SMI is using the Bullring and Strip to pay their regular salaries. The cup weekend revenues do not pay for anything at the Bullring! Stafford is also charged a higher rate then if he were to be contracting out these services!
As for the CT525 spec engine, Irwindale has required all the teams to use a low gear to keep RPMs below 6700. Several Teams "Current champs Jacksons" have cars with all three engine packages. The CT525 spec engine will qualify the same, but because of the low gear and the additional weight the cars were slugs. When the pace slows "during the race" they just don't have the power to get off the corners like the Fords. I applaud Lester for realizing the problem and adjusting the weight before the next event!
The CT525 spec engine cost $11.5 turn key from Bill Marropolis, it comes complete with the alternator, Stewart water pump, pulleys, LX MSD ignition, wire harness and Holley carb! The only thing needed is the Howe exhaust "$450" and an electric fuel pump "$100". The clutch is the same, we re-drilled the flywheel for the LS pattern. The LS3 is not externally balanced like the LT1.
Now compare the cost of the GM CT525 spec engine package to the Peters or Kroyer Ford packages. After you pay over $20k for the engine, you will need to buy; a high dollar 2 barrel carb, MSD ignition, alternator, pulleys, and SPD exhaust. The GM CT525 spec engine last 4 times as long and is a great value at less than half the cost!
The weekly maintenance is nothing. "Change the oil every other event". No valve adjustments, replacing valve springs or after event tech tear downs!
It's a NO BRAIN-ER!
The only buzzing I hear is the extra money burning a hole in my pocket! ha ha
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Post by heatmizer on May 15, 2010 11:35:31 GMT -8
Well Billy, if its a "NO BRAIN-ER" then its right up your alley, you dumbazz. (I love when Billy writes the jokes for me...all too easy) So far the only thing Irwindale has going for it is that the Vision Air knuckleheads can now feel like they know what they're doing. Low car counts and rule shake-ups are the stuff that makes the Bullring so much fun to run. Now that Irwindale is up to the same thing, it levels the playing field for a few weeks. It must make you feel like Cup-Car Chad to have one of your cars "near" the front....just keep in mind that you're also "near" the back when there's only a dozen cars and you're running in 7th or 8th. The competition pulled out of Irwindale and you and the Vision Air goofs pulled in. You filled a void. Now be a good "field-filler" and shut up!!!
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Post by teammtrsprts on May 15, 2010 13:42:05 GMT -8
Heatmizer,
Name calling? Grow up!
Same old coward "Hides behind screen name" trying to get attention "attention through conflict".
Do you ever have anything intelligent to say?
It is apparent you didn't give you enough attention as a child!
Done!
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